Greetings!
It seems that there are a few individuals who feel insulted by my recent visit to the Cult of Cthulhu Forums. Basically to make a long story short. The question came up in a Cult of Cthulhu Forum entitled “Validating or Invalidating The Necronomicon. “ The topic can be viewed in it’s entirety here:
http://cocthulhu.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=all&action=display&thread=3111&page=1
On April 26th 2010, I made the following reply to Venger Satanis, who made it a forum rule that everyone on the Cult of Cthulhu Forum address him as Master Satanis, Lord Satanis, or High Priest Venger Satanis, don’t worry folks the ego gets bigger as you will see shortly. Here was my reply to him:
“I agree with you that the power does not lie within the book but in the work and the Initiate’s use of it. That is probably the best point I have read in this posting that CoC Admin has to offer thus far. I think this discussion summarizes the CoC agenda overall:
My work with the Simon Necronomicon is not a historical re-enactment of the past either, but when you understand the work, you will come to understand that it is appropriate for all times and seasons, sine the same stellar principles affect reality today as they did thousands of years ago.
I see that you have the Simon Necronomicon listed as the 3th influence for your Order, or Cult. I am sure you are aware of the importance of the number 5.
Yes I studied Fourth Way material for about ten years and that was the approach of that school of thought. Of course, life is what is the testing grounds for validating a set of teachings. I agree totally, but since you feel you can just undermine the way Gurdjieff and his associates were instructed and then later say that you are incorporating influences from the same school of thought that you are evidently undermining if that works for you then whatever, and to think. I was considering joining CoC, but now I see otherwise since you are so bent , or threatened by the fact that there are people who enjoy great benefits from the Simon Necronomicon without having a man implying that they are the “Way” to my salvation.
“If one reads the fiction of H.P. Lovecraft and then reads the Simon Necronomicon, then I believe the distinction is clear. The two are completely separate except for the use of Lovecraftian names and the practice of magic.”
Nice idea and statement but you have given us no validated evidence for anyone here on this message board in support of your conclusion.
“Really? That’s a fundamental process in the Cthulhu Cult… questioning all things, up to and including, the experiences of others.”
Questioning all things is good. And what may be the experience of others may not be for some. Therefore, it is time that the CoC begin questioning you and what makes you the “master” of the CoC. I think that should be given some attention as well.
Did you/he mean me, Venger Satanis, or the satanic stripper on youtube, Venus Satanas? It makes a difference
I was referring to Venus Santanas, although at times I see no difference between you and her. See it’s sarcastic statemnts like this that make my board readers wonder how much Fourth Way thought you are teaching your flock, since the definition of “negative emotions” is clearly understood by those in the work, with or without the green slime.”
Shortly after linking Dan Harms’ review of the Cult of Cthulhu Bible to my response to Venger Satanis, Dan Harms receives a hate letter, which he posted at the following link:
http://danharms.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/we-get-hate-feedback/
I was already wary of the so-called Cult of Cthulhu’s intentions and their inner workings. However, I must say that I did visit their forum with the honest intent of learning more about occult groups who use either, Lovecraftian or Necronomicon aesthetics. Venger Satanis e=replied to one of my posts in the following words on his forum:
“I’ve used the Simon Necronomicon. And I’m not saying that system is invalid. What I’m saying is that Gate Walking isn’t any more or less valid than any other system which an individual finds emotionally, intellectually, and aesthetically pleasing.
Apparently, if my system embraces the Fourth Way and Lovecraft, then Warlock Asylum has implied that the Cthulhu Cult system is superior. And if anyone disagrees, then they should definitely feel free to pursue Gate Walking or something similar. I’m sure we’ll survive somehow without participants and practitioners who find our paradigm lacking.
I don’t think either myself or the Priests of R’lyeh were being anything but respectfully skeptical. And I’ll be honest, I do feel some unwarranted hostility from Warlock Asylum. For me personally, it throws into question his credibility as both a 4th Way expert and knowledgeable, accomplished magician. “
Why is it okay for Venger Satanis to call Venus Satanas a “satanic stripper,” a statement that was completely unwarranted, and ver disrespectful in my opinion, now feel the need to state that I am directing “hostility” towards him. Yet Venger Satanis finds it perfectly okay for his people in his group to send threats to Dan Harms and write disrespectful comments to blogs that I have posted. I even sent apologies to the Cult of Cthulhu’s Administration on the terms that even if I do not agree that Venger Satanis is the “I am the Way,” another term that he calls himself in view of his understanding of the teachings of Gurdjieff who heavily speaks about self-deception and the false ego, which Venger seems to misinterpret, I still can respect people who are dedicated to improving their lives, but it seems that Venger isn’t satisfied with that. He and his spiritual gang must insult those who offer a different perspective. After Dan Harms received his hate comments, I received a few myself. An person named Ravenshhok recently started commenting on a blog that I posted. The article and his comments can be seen here:
http://warlockasyluminternationalnews.com/2010/04/29/the-meaning-of-necronomicon-meditation/#comment-16251Since Ravenshook doesn’t even have the politeness or understands the fundamental principles of debate, and is not important in the whole scheme of things I give very little to his argument. There is a lot of information in the debates posted between Dan Harms and myself that the reader can get an understanding of where we both stand on certain issues. So why is Ravenshook asking me these questions or trying to draw my attention out. It really a sad story.
See Cult of Cthulhu and the flock of Venger Satanis have really put themselves on thechopping block. Any arguments that the Cult of Cthulhu has about the Simon Necronomicon, in some way shape, or form, is based on the research that was done by Dan Harms and John Wisdom Gonce III to try to say that the Simon Necronomicon is a hoax. However, these individuals fall short because they haven’t done their own research and the very hand they attack, Dan harms, they are forced to eat from, and use his research since they are too lazy to come up with their own rebuttal from their own investigation.
Secondly, you can see the hypocritical attitude by members of “Master” Venger Satanis’ group based on the following comment left by Ravenshook on my blog:
“I am surprised that critics of the Simon Necronomicon never took the time to ask themselves why would someone so skilled in the Occult Arts be involved in a hoax”
Money is your answer, as stated in the http://www.nypress.com/article-7663-the-doom-that-came-to-chelsea.html article. The same source you say is valid in stating that Levanda was knowledgeable in Enochian magic says he did it for money. You pick and choose when a source is valid or invalid purely based on your own limited needs. For shame…”
Why didn’t Ravenshook respond to the link I gave him about the interview I had with Denny Sargent? However, he seems to find one article about the opinion of a person who has some conflict with Simon and think he has proved a point or do some research. Well, Raven shook I would advise you to read on because this is very important.
The Real Hoax
Ravenshook let me just ask you one question to end this dialogue once and for all. If the Simon Necronomicon is a hoax, as some have mistakenly claimed, then wouldn’t Venger Satanis calling his group the Cult of Cthulhu als obe a hoax? Just think about it “Master” Venger Satanis stated the following in one of his replies to me:
“If I were to list a hierarchy of influences for the Cthulhu Cult, it would look something like this.
1. H.P. Lovecraft’s Cthulhu Mythos (most influential).
2. The Fourth Way as taught by Gurdjieff and Ouspensky.
3. Satanism, LaVey, Temple of Set, and similar LHP groups.
4. Chaos Magic, Crowley’s Thelema, Buddhism, Gnosticism, Thomas Ligotti, The Holographic Universe, etc.
5. Necronomicon works by Simon, Tyson, Giger, etc. Alchemy, Heremeticism, Voodoo/Hoodoo.
6. Christianity, conspiracy theories, science fiction and horror movies.”
What “Master” Venger Satanis has stated in his reply to me on your forum has nothing to do with what Lovecraft described as the Cult of Cthulhu in his writings. So I think the real hoax is obvious. See “Ravenshook” you gave yourself away when you stated the following:
“I would be careful about taking too high a position on your pedestal in regards to coming “on this blog page attacking a peaceful group of people trying to pursue their own spirituality”. You’ve been guilty of that recently yourself. You’ve been guilty of that alot. You reap what you sow, junior.”See for those who are unaware I was listed as a “Junior” in the Cult of Cthulhu Forum. Well, let me just say the hoax that “Master” Venger Satanis calls the Cult of Cthlhu. It has nothing to do with what Lovecraft wrote about. We find that in the Gate-walking Community and even we don’t use those terms because we are not trying to attract use Lovecraft’s work as a gimmick to increase our membership numbers. What is so sad about this is that I was planning to talk with “Master” Venger Satanis (readers please feel free to use the “N” word instead of Master if you need to, and I am not referring to the Necronomicon either) and Dan Harms about doing a Graphic Novel with all of us and some others as characters in the book. However, “Master” Venger Satanis has shown his true colors by sending out his flock to persecute people of a different opinion. If any of you have read Dan Harms review of the pseudo Cult of Cthulhu Bible, you can see that somehow these poor souls say they merge Fourth Way teachings into their work while justify human murder. I highly recommend this group for the disenchanted. Ravenshook do yourself a favor and please do not respond to my postings, send your Master to clean up the mess he made. Additionally, I am asking everybody in “master” Venger Santanis’ group who reads this article to also read this posting:
http://warlockasyluminternationalnews.com/2010/04/28/1630/
ウォーロックの亡命
P.S. I am sure that this person was appointed by Lovecraft’s Old Ones to usher in the New Age. Although, I see how a so-called Fourth Way student can help others in regards to his video below:
Nine months later Venger is enjoying himself:
Wait, wait, wait… The Cult of Cthulhu? Okay, bub, whatever gets you through the night. Looks like you have pissed off more people than I originally suspected.
I did respond to your Danny Sargent interview with the following…
You- warlockasylum.wordpress.com/interview-with-denny-sargent-a-friend-of-the-authors-of-the-simon-necronomicon/
Mr. Sargent, from the interview-“I think it is a usable system that has tenuous historical roots, but nevertheless is quite real in many ways.”
Me-Another of your sources says that what you are trying to prove is bullshit.
…check yourself, junior. Your missing the things that are being posted on your own blog and lashing out at shadows. Doesn’t take much to get you all stirred up, does it?
Other than that, I have nothing to say here. Not my fight.
by-the-by… I meant “junior” in the same manner I meant “son”… you are a tyro, inexperienced, naive, untested, limited in your awareness of the way things are, a child, mentally delinquent, spiritually stunted… need I go on?
I came here thinking I would learn something about the Necronomicon and instead there is all this garbage. I honestly can’t believe anyone would take you seriously mr. warlockasylum. I don’t know much about any Cult of Cthulhu but if you have issue with them… I will probably go check them out. Cause you obviously fell off the tree. I see this same kinda hodge-podge types of justification and spin from the ole white power boys here in the south. Trying to twist verses of the bible to fit there insecure and ignorant hate banners. Matter fact didn’t you just make reference to the “N” word? I’ll bet you don’t like colored folk either.
Grow-up Bigot!
thank you very much for your comments. I suggest you explore the CoC. It may do you some good
Wow, Ravenshook, do you also apply “fool” & “clown” when you talk about yourself? As that is all you are coming off as.
Your whole premise is that the Simon Necronomicon is a hoax, it was created as a money making scheme, Warlock Asylum is pulling divergent threads of evidence together to support his points & prove the validity of the work, blah, blah, blah, et infinitum…
Did you ever think for a second that maybe the information posted here has been tested practically & that Warlock Asylum isn’t just talking out his ass?
Oh, wait, that’s right; you don’t work with the system or the Necronomicon so you wouldn’t know that.
You’ve collected quite a collection of links to support your tenuous hypothesis, but all you’ve really done is further prove the fact that you’re nothing but a parrot; I use the term parrot in the classical vernacular meaning a person who can’t think for themselves but merely regurgitates what others feed to them.
The pandemic of armchair occultists has gained yet another victim. I hope that chair is comfy, Ravenshook, because it very obvious that you’ll never get beyond it. It’s really easy to sit back & criticize, it takes someone with some real balls to put what their criticizing to the test. I think I presented the same challenge to the critics of the system in the Cult of Cthulhu, of which I am a member, & they declined. What does that say about them, & you?
I’m really impressed with your ability to sling terms like “junior” & “son”, oh, let’s not forget “bitch” around behind the safety of your keyboard. Takes a lot of balls to come on a message board under an assumed name & ridicule what you obviously know nothing about.
To address the whole scheme of your argument on this & the other threads, now that I’ve given a few paragraphs of my opinion of your character, it honestly doesn’t matter how the Simon Necronomicon came into existence, who was involved, or what benefits they are receiving as a result of it. The fact is the system works, plain & simple. You make the comparison of the Nec to the Christian Bible & how those involved with the Bible draw evidence from divergent sources to support their findings & enrich their path; that’s called progress, hoss (look, I used a pet name of my own for you…) Any system that doesn’t evolve stagnates & becomes ineffectual. We build on the foundation laid by the original work & then build upon that foundation in ways as unique as the individual building on said foundation. There are a multitude of offshoots of the Simon Necronomicon, & like this one,they have grown in their own directions while still remaining true to the original text.
Unlike you, Warlock Asylum has gone out & done his own research & continues to do so. He sites his sources so anyone reading his statements can check them for themselves & avail themselves of the same sources so to do their own research. I guess the concept of work is a little beyond you, Ravenshook. It’s nice to know your parents are charitable enough to allow you to continue to live in their basement & mooch off them. What!? Did I make an unfounded accusation? I’m terribly sorry as I don’t have a clue who you are or what you’re about; I can only go by the evidence you’ve presented about yourself & this is the conclusion you’ve led me to.
Anyhow, I think I’m done. If you or your little friend Mr. Scratch feel the need to rebut, by all means fire away. It might take me a little while to get back to you as I am generally too busy actually doing the Work as opposed to sitting back & criticizing what I know nothing about.
Blessings.
Benny…. The shame you must feel having to stick up for your lover. See the thing is, you said a long winded bunch of nothing. I feel bad for this Cult of Cthulhu. You claim to be a member yet you stick up for this racist spin artist. Don’t know this Ravenshook guy, but I think he is pretty much pwning your hunny. Pretty funny cause you had to come be the knight in shining armor. Problem is…. You Fail! Douche! I bet you wanna know how right? Just by saying “Doesn’t matter how the Simon Necronomicon came into existence, who was involved, or what benefits they are receiving as a result of it. The fact is the system works, plain & simple.” Do you have any idea how stupid you sound. How bout I tell you the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the real author of the Simon Necronomicon? I don’t have to prove it to you, according to your statement. He wrote it plain and simple. Enjoy your ass-sucking pal!
Thanks for the advise warlockasylum!
neither Ben or I are gay and this is veru funny since it is the same tactics that Venger tried to use with Dan Harms. It is good to see how this group who names themselves after a story written by Lovecraft now wants to call the Simon grimoire a hoax. Plus it is childish for both Venger and his flock to take on psuedo names and act like they are innocent readers replying to this blog page. You are living a lie that would make H.P. Lovecraft turn in his grave. Grow up! You don’t have what it takes.
I should also state that I didn’t put much effort in responding to Ravenshook intentionally. He was looking for an argument from the start, and his use of offensive language didn’t help. Everyone is entitled to follow their own spiritual path, but for some reason or another, when an individual chooses the Simon Necronomicon as such, it’s a problem. The verbal attacks on the Gate-Walking Community and Dan Harms just shows hos solitare spirituality is always a threat to those who are members of spiritual gangs posing as occultists.
Wow, Scratch, is that the best you could come up with? I think that pretty much confirms my previous statements to Ravenshook apply to you as well. I honestly don’t care who you are or where you come from; you’ve proven yourself beneath my contempt & the contempt of all those who read this blog to help them advance their path. If you wish to keep up this stupidity, then by all means, but you just kicked the last leg you had to stand on out from under yourself by your statement.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is in fact the sole author of every spiritual & occult system that has ever existed; he just goes by different pen names so his conspiracy won’t be discovered. I guess you were too smart for him; you saw through the blind & found him out. So, since you’ve made this earth shattering discovery, you should go to every other website that in some way deals with spiritual or occult subjects & tell them the jig is up & that they are all frauds. After all, it doesn’t matter how any system is applied & what benefit its adherents get from it; it only matters if it lines up with your opinion, right Scratch? And its funny that you call Warlock Asylum a racist; in fact all those who know him personally are laughing at you even harder.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is laughing at you too; he thought someone so smart as to have uncovered his ruse would have dug a bit deeper before shooting off at the mouth, but alas, I guess he expected too much of you.
Blessings.
Here’s a little history for the uninitiated:
(And for those members of the CoC who are spamming this site or others, it’s time to wake up. How well do you know your “leader”? How do you know he is actually at OT VIII ranking and has cleared all of his engrams? So, c’mon? How well do you know him? I’ve met him in Madison, Wisconsin. Have any of you?)
About one and a half, to two years before he set up the Cthulhu 1 convention, Dishaw was actually doing some research into magikal pathways, mostly Chaos Magik if I remember correctly. His stuff was based on a gestalt of his interests – his favorite cartoon icons, LaVey Satanism, porn, and his favorite authors, but it was Chaos Magik, so it worked. That’s where his basis of his “cult” came from.
But his actual practice and research was short lived, because one thing you’ll realize when you first meet Dishaw, is, with the exception with his overriding obsession with porn and movies, he’s ADD – or almost even bipolar when it come to anything else. He’ll have a manic period when he first discovers something new that peeks his interest, but he quickly burns out and there is no follow through. That’s where he is with his “cult”.
The “Cult” of Cthulhu is a fraud. A sham. It’s not real. Dishaw has not invested one iota of new thought into it since he first started the website. Why? Because Dishaw is lazy, sloppy, and unmotivated. He’s an attention whore who wants an ego boosting, but he’s not willing to go the extra mile to get it. He has had some good ideas and a smidgen of insight or two, but it’s never more than that. That’s why he uses other ideas or pre-established things as a crutch to bolster his own ideas, because he’s a parasite in the true sense of the word. He doesn’t have enough of his own material developed or thought out, so he must fall back on something easy and established to cover for him. That’s precisely why he plagiarized Wikipedia. It was simply easier to copy and paste.
There are no rituals in his cult. There are no magikal rites. There is no temple or church. There are no group meetings. There are no memorized passages or prayers. There is no personal interaction. There is no face time at all. All there is, is the color green, Lovecratian adjectives, poker talk, and unSatanism. Do a pop quiz with Dishaw sometime and he won’t even be able to tell you what he said on a prior day, or what exactly his dogma is. He doesn’t even have any real members who are willing to work with him, so he puts out calls for models, actors, or members on Craig’s List.
His only defense, is to claim it’s up to his followers to determine his or her own pathway. Translation: he’s got nothing except the initial sales pitch. Anything he does throw together, is just half-assed junk he can’t sell because no one cares about it, or painfully bad videos on Youtube. (And anyone who’s seen his videos knows how little thought, preparation, and effort was put into those.)
Dishaw is an insignificant person in the greater whole of things with nothing to show for himself, but wanting to make a name for himself anyway. But he’s too lazy to do the hard work to make it happen. So instead of putting his nose to the grindstone and creating a new magikal system like all the real magicians who he stole material from; and who came before him, he threw up a website and proclaimed himself the “high priest” of dated, low-brow pulp literature based around a pretend alien sea monster, complete with tentacle envy that could put to shame the libidos of a thousand teenaged Japanese boys and their monster rape mangas.
While I fully admit it’s been a long time since I last spoke to him, even longer since I last saw him, I do occasionally check up on his site to see if anything new or significant happened, but it’s all the same old thing. Dishaw is a creature of habit, and he is lazy. Therefore it’s safe to say he won’t change, not when he can still get the mere pittance of an audience to pay attention to him.
I don’t want to bash him too hard, because as a person removed from his “cult” he was actually a nice guy. But everyone needs to know his “cult” is a lie, he presents himself in a false light, and when I see the garbage his clueless followers dish out, I’m not ashamed to tell it how it really is.
I’m a spaniard, so my english is crap. I apologize for that.
Well then, I was attracted to the forums because of the name.
And naturally, I was expecting some king of H.P. Lovecraft and Cthulhu Mythos fan club.
Instead, what I found was something I believed impossible.
People actually think, that the fictional monsters from a bunch of fantasy works are real.
Even then, I didn’t worried too much about that, because, as long as they knew a lot of Lovecraft’s works and understood them well, the whole thing could be fun, like those awesome “chaos worshipers” from some Warhammer 40k forums.
Of course, when I saw that they knew shit about all that, and believed that a genocidal madness-bringer mountain-tall monster and it’s kind would care about a pathetic human being, I was very upset.
Why choose the worst gods possible? In the original works, if you worship Chulhu, the best you can expect from it is to die first, and not in a quick and calm way.
And the cult “lider”… “I am the way”… “pay me to be iluminated”… oh god…
I remember when some fat dude posted that a tentacle monster helped him fuck his girlfrend…
A Lovecraftian/tentacle rape… come the fuck on!
Jesus, idk if Venger was cursed to hell and back, if certain deities were just wrecking his shit of their own volition, or if he royally fucked himself with his own misguided alchemical pursuits, but the energetic ass-whooping he received before making that video to find his “emerald woman” is so severe that his videos are actually disorienting to watch. It’s a shame that I didn’t have the eyes to see that when I was reviewing his work in my late teens. Fucking yikes.