It seems that there are a few individuals who feel insulted by my recent visit to the Cult of Cthulhu Forums. Basically to make a long story short. The question came up in a Cult of Cthulhu Forum entitled “Validating or Invalidating The Necronomicon. “ The topic can be viewed in it’s entirety here:
On April 26th 2010, I made the following reply to Venger Satanis, who made it a forum rule that everyone on the Cult of Cthulhu Forum address him as Master Satanis, Lord Satanis, or High Priest Venger Satanis, don’t worry folks the ego gets bigger as you will see shortly. Here was my reply to him:
“I agree with you that the power does not lie within the book but in the work and the Initiate’s use of it. That is probably the best point I have read in this posting that CoC Admin has to offer thus far. I think this discussion summarizes the CoC agenda overall:
My work with the Simon Necronomicon is not a historical re-enactment of the past either, but when you understand the work, you will come to understand that it is appropriate for all times and seasons, sine the same stellar principles affect reality today as they did thousands of years ago.
I see that you have the Simon Necronomicon listed as the 3th influence for your Order, or Cult. I am sure you are aware of the importance of the number 5.
Yes I studied Fourth Way material for about ten years and that was the approach of that school of thought. Of course, life is what is the testing grounds for validating a set of teachings. I agree totally, but since you feel you can just undermine the way Gurdjieff and his associates were instructed and then later say that you are incorporating influences from the same school of thought that you are evidently undermining if that works for you then whatever, and to think. I was considering joining CoC, but now I see otherwise since you are so bent , or threatened by the fact that there are people who enjoy great benefits from the Simon Necronomicon without having a man implying that they are the “Way” to my salvation.
“If one reads the fiction of H.P. Lovecraft and then reads the Simon Necronomicon, then I believe the distinction is clear. The two are completely separate except for the use of Lovecraftian names and the practice of magic.”
Nice idea and statement but you have given us no validated evidence for anyone here on this message board in support of your conclusion.
“Really? That’s a fundamental process in the Cthulhu Cult… questioning all things, up to and including, the experiences of others.”
Questioning all things is good. And what may be the experience of others may not be for some. Therefore, it is time that the CoC begin questioning you and what makes you the “master” of the CoC. I think that should be given some attention as well.
Did you/he mean me, Venger Satanis, or the satanic stripper on youtube, Venus Satanas? It makes a difference
I was referring to Venus Santanas, although at times I see no difference between you and her. See it’s sarcastic statemnts like this that make my board readers wonder how much Fourth Way thought you are teaching your flock, since the definition of “negative emotions” is clearly understood by those in the work, with or without the green slime.”
Shortly after linking Dan Harms’ review of the Cult of Cthulhu Bible to my response to Venger Satanis, Dan Harms receives a hate letter, which he posted at the following link:
I was already wary of the so-called Cult of Cthulhu’s intentions and their inner workings. However, I must say that I did visit their forum with the honest intent of learning more about occult groups who use either, Lovecraftian or Necronomicon aesthetics. Venger Satanis e=replied to one of my posts in the following words on his forum:
“I’ve used the Simon Necronomicon. And I’m not saying that system is invalid. What I’m saying is that Gate Walking isn’t any more or less valid than any other system which an individual finds emotionally, intellectually, and aesthetically pleasing.
Apparently, if my system embraces the Fourth Way and Lovecraft, then Warlock Asylum has implied that the Cthulhu Cult system is superior. And if anyone disagrees, then they should definitely feel free to pursue Gate Walking or something similar. I’m sure we’ll survive somehow without participants and practitioners who find our paradigm lacking.
I don’t think either myself or the Priests of R’lyeh were being anything but respectfully skeptical. And I’ll be honest, I do feel some unwarranted hostility from Warlock Asylum. For me personally, it throws into question his credibility as both a 4th Way expert and knowledgeable, accomplished magician. “
Why is it okay for Venger Satanis to call Venus Satanas a “satanic stripper,” a statement that was completely unwarranted, and ver disrespectful in my opinion, now feel the need to state that I am directing “hostility” towards him. Yet Venger Satanis finds it perfectly okay for his people in his group to send threats to Dan Harms and write disrespectful comments to blogs that I have posted. I even sent apologies to the Cult of Cthulhu’s Administration on the terms that even if I do not agree that Venger Satanis is the “I am the Way,” another term that he calls himself in view of his understanding of the teachings of Gurdjieff who heavily speaks about self-deception and the false ego, which Venger seems to misinterpret, I still can respect people who are dedicated to improving their lives, but it seems that Venger isn’t satisfied with that. He and his spiritual gang must insult those who offer a different perspective. After Dan Harms received his hate comments, I received a few myself. An person named Ravenshhok recently started commenting on a blog that I posted. The article and his comments can be seen here:http://warlockasyluminternationalnews.com/2010/04/29/the-meaning-of-necronomicon-meditation/#comment-16251
Since Ravenshook doesn’t even have the politeness or understands the fundamental principles of debate, and is not important in the whole scheme of things I give very little to his argument. There is a lot of information in the debates posted between Dan Harms and myself that the reader can get an understanding of where we both stand on certain issues. So why is Ravenshook asking me these questions or trying to draw my attention out. It really a sad story.
See Cult of Cthulhu and the flock of Venger Satanis have really put themselves on thechopping block. Any arguments that the Cult of Cthulhu has about the Simon Necronomicon, in some way shape, or form, is based on the research that was done by Dan Harms and John Wisdom Gonce III to try to say that the Simon Necronomicon is a hoax. However, these individuals fall short because they haven’t done their own research and the very hand they attack, Dan harms, they are forced to eat from, and use his research since they are too lazy to come up with their own rebuttal from their own investigation.
Secondly, you can see the hypocritical attitude by members of “Master” Venger Satanis’ group based on the following comment left by Ravenshook on my blog:
“I am surprised that critics of the Simon Necronomicon never took the time to ask themselves why would someone so skilled in the Occult Arts be involved in a hoax”
Money is your answer, as stated in the http://www.nypress.com/article-7663-the-doom-that-came-to-chelsea.html article. The same source you say is valid in stating that Levanda was knowledgeable in Enochian magic says he did it for money. You pick and choose when a source is valid or invalid purely based on your own limited needs. For shame…”
Why didn’t Ravenshook respond to the link I gave him about the interview I had with Denny Sargent? However, he seems to find one article about the opinion of a person who has some conflict with Simon and think he has proved a point or do some research. Well, Raven shook I would advise you to read on because this is very important.
The Real Hoax
Ravenshook let me just ask you one question to end this dialogue once and for all. If the Simon Necronomicon is a hoax, as some have mistakenly claimed, then wouldn’t Venger Satanis calling his group the Cult of Cthulhu als obe a hoax? Just think about it “Master” Venger Satanis stated the following in one of his replies to me:
“If I were to list a hierarchy of influences for the Cthulhu Cult, it would look something like this.
1. H.P. Lovecraft’s Cthulhu Mythos (most influential).
2. The Fourth Way as taught by Gurdjieff and Ouspensky.
3. Satanism, LaVey, Temple of Set, and similar LHP groups.
4. Chaos Magic, Crowley’s Thelema, Buddhism, Gnosticism, Thomas Ligotti, The Holographic Universe, etc.
5. Necronomicon works by Simon, Tyson, Giger, etc. Alchemy, Heremeticism, Voodoo/Hoodoo.
6. Christianity, conspiracy theories, science fiction and horror movies.”
What “Master” Venger Satanis has stated in his reply to me on your forum has nothing to do with what Lovecraft described as the Cult of Cthulhu in his writings. So I think the real hoax is obvious. See “Ravenshook” you gave yourself away when you stated the following:“I would be careful about taking too high a position on your pedestal in regards to coming “on this blog page attacking a peaceful group of people trying to pursue their own spirituality”. You’ve been guilty of that recently yourself. You’ve been guilty of that alot. You reap what you sow, junior.”
See for those who are unaware I was listed as a “Junior” in the Cult of Cthulhu Forum. Well, let me just say the hoax that “Master” Venger Satanis calls the Cult of Cthlhu. It has nothing to do with what Lovecraft wrote about. We find that in the Gate-walking Community and even we don’t use those terms because we are not trying to attract use Lovecraft’s work as a gimmick to increase our membership numbers. What is so sad about this is that I was planning to talk with “Master” Venger Satanis (readers please feel free to use the “N” word instead of Master if you need to, and I am not referring to the Necronomicon either) and Dan Harms about doing a Graphic Novel with all of us and some others as characters in the book. However, “Master” Venger Satanis has shown his true colors by sending out his flock to persecute people of a different opinion. If any of you have read Dan Harms review of the pseudo Cult of Cthulhu Bible, you can see that somehow these poor souls say they merge Fourth Way teachings into their work while justify human murder. I highly recommend this group for the disenchanted. Ravenshook do yourself a favor and please do not respond to my postings, send your Master to clean up the mess he made. Additionally, I am asking everybody in “master” Venger Santanis’ group who reads this article to also read this posting:
P.S. I am sure that this person was appointed by Lovecraft’s Old Ones to usher in the New Age. Although, I see how a so-called Fourth Way student can help others in regards to his video below:
Nine months later Venger is enjoying himself: